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Are meat eaters being hypocritical by objecting to animal cruelty but still eating meat?
Or is there an approved list of "it's okay to box and slaughter these animals, no one cares about THOSE animals" and a "but these over here you have to be nice to, including not eating them"?
There are many TV shows about eating strange creatures, even illegal ones. Everything from Fear Factor to No Reservations. It's clear that people CAN eat anything on this planet, even the extinct (if you believe in the mammoth meat stories).
In the USA dogs, cats and in some places, horses, are protected from butchering and eating them. But rabbits are both pets and food. So are fish, but not dolphins (because they're cute?). Are only ugly animals legal to eat?
Seems very hypocritical for someone to mow into a cow burger that was {graphic description of slaughterhouse activities omitted}, but complain about cock (rooster) or dog fights.
Or how about fois grae? That involves force feeding and is illegal in some states in the USA and other countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras
http://www.nofoiegras.org/FGlaws.htm
Or is all this just another fine example of a convenient gray area when it comes to "what I want"? Meaning, "if I like it, it's okay. If I don't like it, then it's wrong."
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There are many TV shows about eating strange creatures, even illegal ones. Everything from Fear Factor to No Reservations. It's clear that people CAN eat anything on this planet, even the extinct (if you believe in the mammoth meat stories).
In the USA dogs, cats and in some places, horses, are protected from butchering and eating them. But rabbits are both pets and food. So are fish, but not dolphins (because they're cute?). Are only ugly animals legal to eat?
Seems very hypocritical for someone to mow into a cow burger that was {graphic description of slaughterhouse activities omitted}, but complain about cock (rooster) or dog fights.
Or how about fois grae? That involves force feeding and is illegal in some states in the USA and other countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras
http://www.nofoiegras.org/FGlaws.htm
Or is all this just another fine example of a convenient gray area when it comes to "what I want"? Meaning, "if I like it, it's okay. If I don't like it, then it's wrong."
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October 17, 2009 08:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?&next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DyffdnuTw5qM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOsBJkHgIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCNCaFuWRQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTHHgxFOD_g
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I don't think it is a convenient gray area.
Animal cruelty is very different from killing animal for survival.
In many countries animal cruelty is seen as a sport, they claim it has been in their culture and cannot be eradicated even if it is a cruel and wicked act
watch this videos:http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?&next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DyffdnuTw5qM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOsBJkHgIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTHHgxFOD_g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCNCaFuWRQM
This is cruelty in capital letters.
In some places, before an animal is slaughtered for food, a short prayer is said for the soul of the animal and they make it a quick death. This sounds funny but it is true. They know that the animal will feel pains, but they have to eat to survive.
The difference is that those who kill for meat, kills for survival while those who hurt animals do it for pleasure.
Permit me to drift. The fact that sex is good, doesn't make rape acceptable.
Hope you get my point
thank you
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Animal cruelty is very different from killing animal for survival.
In many countries animal cruelty is seen as a sport, they claim it has been in their culture and cannot be eradicated even if it is a cruel and wicked act
watch this videos:http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?&next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DyffdnuTw5qM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOsBJkHgIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTHHgxFOD_g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCNCaFuWRQM
This is cruelty in capital letters.
In some places, before an animal is slaughtered for food, a short prayer is said for the soul of the animal and they make it a quick death. This sounds funny but it is true. They know that the animal will feel pains, but they have to eat to survive.
The difference is that those who kill for meat, kills for survival while those who hurt animals do it for pleasure.
Permit me to drift. The fact that sex is good, doesn't make rape acceptable.
Hope you get my point
thank you
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?&next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DyffdnuTw5qM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOsBJkHgIU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCNCaFuWRQM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTHHgxFOD_g
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• Thank you for such a thorough answer. Your drift was on-point and well taken.
If we all took personal responsibility for hunting/gathering/preparing our own diets this would be a very different world and I believe we'd be healthier for it, physically, socially and mentally.
But who knows? Some say that if we'd used push-button technology before triggers this would be a very different world too. All we can do is make the best of it from this point forward.
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October 17, 2009 07:49 AM
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There is a difference between animal cruelty and production of meat. That would be why slaughter houses that also partake in animal cruelty are shut down.
Humans are omnivores. We are supposed to eat meat. Have you ever watched a pack of wolves take down a moose? Should the wolves starve to death because killing the moose is going to hurt it? In nature killing is natural.
If I shoot a moose to feed my family I am no more wrong than the wolves. If I intentionally shot it in a non-lethal location to watch it run around bleeding to death slowly and then go carve "steaks, yum" into it's rump when it falls down but hasn't died.. THAT is animal cruelty. (yes I do feel the graphic nature of my answer helps its cause.)
On the other aspect of your question, why is it okay to eat some animals (rabbits, cows, etc.) but not others (dogs, cats, dolphins, horses) I do think it's okay. Though in all circumstances I would attempt to avoid eating animals of higher intelligence I would eat any of the above if push came to starving. I think that is the difference, any one who has been around the animals we typically eat can tell you they aren't smart, they don't seem to have any sort of presence the way a dog or a horse does.
Helpful Answer?
Humans are omnivores. We are supposed to eat meat. Have you ever watched a pack of wolves take down a moose? Should the wolves starve to death because killing the moose is going to hurt it? In nature killing is natural.
If I shoot a moose to feed my family I am no more wrong than the wolves. If I intentionally shot it in a non-lethal location to watch it run around bleeding to death slowly and then go carve "steaks, yum" into it's rump when it falls down but hasn't died.. THAT is animal cruelty. (yes I do feel the graphic nature of my answer helps its cause.)
On the other aspect of your question, why is it okay to eat some animals (rabbits, cows, etc.) but not others (dogs, cats, dolphins, horses) I do think it's okay. Though in all circumstances I would attempt to avoid eating animals of higher intelligence I would eat any of the above if push came to starving. I think that is the difference, any one who has been around the animals we typically eat can tell you they aren't smart, they don't seem to have any sort of presence the way a dog or a horse does.
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October 19, 2009 02:33 AM
I only disagree with your comment that humans are supposed to eat meat. As commented elsewhere in this post, humans have the most choices available to us when it comes to our diet. Meat is only one choice and fortunately not required for healthy living (qualified by where you live of course, in some places meat IS the best food available).
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October 19, 2009 03:52 AM
Though it is possible to survive without meat, science agrees human beings are supposed to eat meat. It shows even in our teeth. I even recently had some relatives whose doctor told them, "You are sick because you're not eating meat." end of story. I respect those that chose not to eat meat, as it is their choice, however that doesn't change that anatomically, we are supposed to.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/674/are-humans-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-by-nature
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-9a.shtml
(complete and in depth coverage from above link:
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml )
:)
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http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/674/are-humans-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-by-nature
http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-9a.shtml
(complete and in depth coverage from above link:
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml )
:)
October 17, 2009 03:11 PM
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I think this is the sort of question that vegans like to post to try to make people who eat as nature intended feel bad about it. I am by nature an omnivore and eat meat. I personally could not eat my pet cat, but if cats were raised as a food source then they would be acceptable to eat. Just because we don't think a potato has a brain and can think doesn't mean we are right. After all, just a few hundred years ago, we didn't think the world was round, either.
Unless you are going to start eating dirt and rocks and starve to death, some living creature has to die to make your food. However, there is a vast difference between killing for food and killing for entertainment. Hunting a deer that will feed your family all winter is different that hunting a deer, cutting off its antlers and leaving the meat to rot. Even eating a dog is distinctively different that deliberately and with viscious actions teaching a dog to tear up any living creature it come nears (usually by letting it practice on smaller, helpless creatures) and then throwing it in a pit with the intention of it killing or being killed. Historically,we've done this with people too--think Rome--and it was wrong then too.
As far as outlawing the consumption of horses, cats and dogs in the United States for food, I think we're mistaken in that action. Many of the cultures which contribtued to ours still eat those animals and to deprive them of their food choices is inflicting our choices on others. However, there has always been and will always be a difference between treating an animal humanely and then butchering it for food and animal cruelty/
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Unless you are going to start eating dirt and rocks and starve to death, some living creature has to die to make your food. However, there is a vast difference between killing for food and killing for entertainment. Hunting a deer that will feed your family all winter is different that hunting a deer, cutting off its antlers and leaving the meat to rot. Even eating a dog is distinctively different that deliberately and with viscious actions teaching a dog to tear up any living creature it come nears (usually by letting it practice on smaller, helpless creatures) and then throwing it in a pit with the intention of it killing or being killed. Historically,we've done this with people too--think Rome--and it was wrong then too.
As far as outlawing the consumption of horses, cats and dogs in the United States for food, I think we're mistaken in that action. Many of the cultures which contribtued to ours still eat those animals and to deprive them of their food choices is inflicting our choices on others. However, there has always been and will always be a difference between treating an animal humanely and then butchering it for food and animal cruelty/
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October 19, 2009 02:31 AM
Not being a vegan myself I don't relate to the first part of your comment. Some would say that if we were made to eat meat we'd have teeth like a meat eater too. But as humans we can do whatever we choose, natural or not. Some say if we weren't supposed to smoke, we wouldn't have lungs. Or of we were meant to fly we'd have wings. My experience is that everything we do is a choice. Very little is forced upon us except for breathing, drinking and eating. What we eat we have more of a choice over than the other two.
Hopefully the alternative to forced consumption of meat isn't just rocks and dirt. :)
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Hopefully the alternative to forced consumption of meat isn't just rocks and dirt. :)
October 17, 2009 09:39 PM
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Having meat in the diet helped modern humans evolve from earlier hominids. The concentrated proteins from meat, fish and bone marrow helped develop larger more complex brains. Our ancestors migrated mainly to follow the paths of migrating large game animals. Gathering of fruits and berries were probably used more to provide sustenance during these treks, but the goal was the animals for meat.
Eating animals and animal cruelty are 2 very different things. I love all animals, even cows pigs and chickens, but I also eat meat and I do not consider myself a hypocrite. I love cats and dogs, and find it personally repulsive to think that they too are eaten, but do not think that cultures that do so should change their ways over it.
Slaughtering an animal for food is a gruesome sight, no matter how humane the method, but in the end it is for the very basic purpose of sustaining our natural need to eat meat. If some people can live without meat, great for them, some people can also be celibate or go without social interaction, if it is there choice and if they can sustain it, good for them. But for the majority of the population, we will eat meat, and the gruesome slaughtering is an acceptable act because it is an extension of what is natural, such as a cat hunting down and eating a mouse.
Animal cruelty is perverse, and can actually be linked to extended cruelty to fellow human beings. Animal cruelty is harming an animal just for the thrill derived from seeing it in pain.
Nature is a harsh and painful place, but all actions have a direct purpose (i.e:slaughter animal, eat animal, derive nutrients from animal) Animal cruelty just for a personal thrill has no purpose and is therefore unnatural.
Helpful Answer?
Eating animals and animal cruelty are 2 very different things. I love all animals, even cows pigs and chickens, but I also eat meat and I do not consider myself a hypocrite. I love cats and dogs, and find it personally repulsive to think that they too are eaten, but do not think that cultures that do so should change their ways over it.
Slaughtering an animal for food is a gruesome sight, no matter how humane the method, but in the end it is for the very basic purpose of sustaining our natural need to eat meat. If some people can live without meat, great for them, some people can also be celibate or go without social interaction, if it is there choice and if they can sustain it, good for them. But for the majority of the population, we will eat meat, and the gruesome slaughtering is an acceptable act because it is an extension of what is natural, such as a cat hunting down and eating a mouse.
Animal cruelty is perverse, and can actually be linked to extended cruelty to fellow human beings. Animal cruelty is harming an animal just for the thrill derived from seeing it in pain.
Nature is a harsh and painful place, but all actions have a direct purpose (i.e:slaughter animal, eat animal, derive nutrients from animal) Animal cruelty just for a personal thrill has no purpose and is therefore unnatural.
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October 19, 2009 02:24 AM
I agree that the worst harm in any of these acts is from, by and to the human psyche. I understand the theory of the origins of the species, even if my understanding of the event you described is different, your point is well taken. Thank you.
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October 18, 2009 02:26 AM
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No, because if the animal is slaughtered mercifully, then actually, that's a better death than it would get in nature.
One time my dad took me out to show me where he'd found an old elk that had reached the end of its days; my dad could tell that it was dying of old age because of something about the antlers and the hair and the hooves.
It had somehow evaded hunters and predation, and for every day for five days dad made me go with him after school to check it out, as it flopped around - so bent and weak and shedding hair - such that by the third day I was asking my dad why he wouldn't shoot it, but dad wouldn't because it wasn't hunting season, plus he said the meat wouldn't be any good, and he would only shoot animals if they could be eaten.
You know... it's only humans who make some attempt to make old age and death easier for each other. In nature, death, even by old age, is a nasty business, and I think if I can get a white tail with one head shot through the brain, then hey...
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One time my dad took me out to show me where he'd found an old elk that had reached the end of its days; my dad could tell that it was dying of old age because of something about the antlers and the hair and the hooves.
It had somehow evaded hunters and predation, and for every day for five days dad made me go with him after school to check it out, as it flopped around - so bent and weak and shedding hair - such that by the third day I was asking my dad why he wouldn't shoot it, but dad wouldn't because it wasn't hunting season, plus he said the meat wouldn't be any good, and he would only shoot animals if they could be eaten.
You know... it's only humans who make some attempt to make old age and death easier for each other. In nature, death, even by old age, is a nasty business, and I think if I can get a white tail with one head shot through the brain, then hey...
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October 18, 2009 07:26 AM
I agree with your sentiment. Many animals find worse death in old age than being slaugthered by food.
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October 19, 2009 02:36 AM
I imagine that few animals outside captivity actually have the experience of dying from old age. Makes me think of the movie Soylent Green. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/SolyentGreen28d.png
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/SolyentGreen28d.png
October 18, 2009 07:35 AM
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Think of it this way, there are many carnivores in the world, dogs and cats among them. They need meat to survive, yet we don't think of them as cruel. Every time you buy dog and cat food, you "sacrifice" another animal for them. Think of tigers, wolves, and every carnivores who hunt in the wild and the animals they kill. In ecosystem, carnivores are the nature;s check and balance. Without them, the herbivores will eat too much of the nature's resources and ruin the ecosystem.
It is the nature's way. I think we should make every effort to make our livestock comfortable and humane, and to die as painless and possible, though.
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It is the nature's way. I think we should make every effort to make our livestock comfortable and humane, and to die as painless and possible, though.
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October 19, 2009 02:19 AM
You're right I don't consider animals eating other animals as cruel. They don't force feed them to suit their diets either.
It's not the same when humans promote meat eating for profit and create industry solely for that purpose.
Some people believe that if they went back in time and stepped on a butterfly that it would change future history. But none of them believe that's what they're doing now with only their stomachs as their guide. In some cases it's convenient ethics I feel. Not every case.
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It's not the same when humans promote meat eating for profit and create industry solely for that purpose.
Some people believe that if they went back in time and stepped on a butterfly that it would change future history. But none of them believe that's what they're doing now with only their stomachs as their guide. In some cases it's convenient ethics I feel. Not every case.
March 15, 2010 03:40 PM
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The amount of animal food most of us eat today is far, far beyond any actual need.
If you won't stop supporting this cruelty at least please consider reducing your intake.
Anybody who thinks that modern meat production is merciful is deluding themselves. The modern "factory farm" is a hideously cruel place, with animals often dying miserably before they get anywhere near a slaughterhouse (it's cheaper to write off a certain percentage of deaths than to give animals decent housing). The animals are selectively bred for increased production which results in deformed animals who suffer terribly. This is true not only of meat but also egg and dairy farms.
Slaughterhouses routinely fail to properly stun animals before cutting them up or dipping them into scalding tanks (the meat industry's acceptable rate of stun failure ranges from 2% to 10%, depending on the animal, which means millions every year get scalded, chopped up and skinned while still conscious).
For the sheer amount of cruelty involved, commercial meat production is far worse than any other form of animal abuse. And every dollar you give to this brutal industry supports more cruelty.
Helpful Answer?
If you won't stop supporting this cruelty at least please consider reducing your intake.
Anybody who thinks that modern meat production is merciful is deluding themselves. The modern "factory farm" is a hideously cruel place, with animals often dying miserably before they get anywhere near a slaughterhouse (it's cheaper to write off a certain percentage of deaths than to give animals decent housing). The animals are selectively bred for increased production which results in deformed animals who suffer terribly. This is true not only of meat but also egg and dairy farms.
Slaughterhouses routinely fail to properly stun animals before cutting them up or dipping them into scalding tanks (the meat industry's acceptable rate of stun failure ranges from 2% to 10%, depending on the animal, which means millions every year get scalded, chopped up and skinned while still conscious).
For the sheer amount of cruelty involved, commercial meat production is far worse than any other form of animal abuse. And every dollar you give to this brutal industry supports more cruelty.
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