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October 07, 2009 10:36 PM
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Ugh, I have a friend who just went through that dilema.
The organization she works for is trying to bust her union, and so they hired some management consultant types who specialize in union busting, and those consultants found a loopy way to use the contract where they could force some downsizing in exactly the departments full of oldtimers with enough seniority to bump junior members in other departments, and it had the effect of making the bumped young workers think that unions are horrible things, combined with people in the new departments not really liking the oldtimer coming in because they know she's there only because she used seniority to bump for the position, combined with how the oldtimers were unhappy because each department works so different, they were basically having to learn a whole new job that takes experience from scratch. You can probably already see the union busters giggling and rubbing their hands with glee.
In her case she had to take the option, because she's got dependants, but she said that if she didn't have the dependants, she would have looked for a job somewhere else, because she thinks she's still young enough to pick up a new skill.
So... translating from her experience to your situation:
1) Do you have dependants? If so, how dependant are they? The fact that you've got seniority means your dependants might be older and more adaptable to changes in the family income structure, whereas the other guy being bumped might have a young family, but you could also be burdened with the kind of dependants at an age where they're looking for help in college, which is no financial picnic. If it looks like your obligations to dependants are more than the other person's obligations to dependants (quite possible given how people are starting living at home longer and starting families later in life than they used to) then you have to accept that obligations to dependants implies a commitment that's virtually out of your hands.
2) Is it an industry that's easy to retrain for? Is it an industry that's easier for *younger* workers to retrain for? Be realistic. If he's younger, then given the nature of your industry and whatever it is you do, is it going to be easier for one or the other of you to retrain? If it's going to be easier for him to retrain than you, then that's another decision that's basically being made for you.
I really do understand what a dilema it is. The option of job bumping has become the union buster's favorite ploy for shaking up credibility of unions among young people, and it's disheartening to those with seniority, and I know that the smart union leaders are starting to rub their chins and think about how it's possible they hadn't thought it all the way through in terms of how that one could backfire, and so have those leaders figure out a way to fix that glich in the next round of contract negotiations, but in the mean time you do have at least two basic questions to ask that answering will make the decision for you: 1) Between you and the other guy, which one is more burdened with obligations to dependants, and 2) Between the two of you, which one is in a better position to retrain. Identify metrics for each of those, and the answer falls out of the hat.
The organization she works for is trying to bust her union, and so they hired some management consultant types who specialize in union busting, and those consultants found a loopy way to use the contract where they could force some downsizing in exactly the departments full of oldtimers with enough seniority to bump junior members in other departments, and it had the effect of making the bumped young workers think that unions are horrible things, combined with people in the new departments not really liking the oldtimer coming in because they know she's there only because she used seniority to bump for the position, combined with how the oldtimers were unhappy because each department works so different, they were basically having to learn a whole new job that takes experience from scratch. You can probably already see the union busters giggling and rubbing their hands with glee.
In her case she had to take the option, because she's got dependants, but she said that if she didn't have the dependants, she would have looked for a job somewhere else, because she thinks she's still young enough to pick up a new skill.
So... translating from her experience to your situation:
1) Do you have dependants? If so, how dependant are they? The fact that you've got seniority means your dependants might be older and more adaptable to changes in the family income structure, whereas the other guy being bumped might have a young family, but you could also be burdened with the kind of dependants at an age where they're looking for help in college, which is no financial picnic. If it looks like your obligations to dependants are more than the other person's obligations to dependants (quite possible given how people are starting living at home longer and starting families later in life than they used to) then you have to accept that obligations to dependants implies a commitment that's virtually out of your hands.
2) Is it an industry that's easy to retrain for? Is it an industry that's easier for *younger* workers to retrain for? Be realistic. If he's younger, then given the nature of your industry and whatever it is you do, is it going to be easier for one or the other of you to retrain? If it's going to be easier for him to retrain than you, then that's another decision that's basically being made for you.
I really do understand what a dilema it is. The option of job bumping has become the union buster's favorite ploy for shaking up credibility of unions among young people, and it's disheartening to those with seniority, and I know that the smart union leaders are starting to rub their chins and think about how it's possible they hadn't thought it all the way through in terms of how that one could backfire, and so have those leaders figure out a way to fix that glich in the next round of contract negotiations, but in the mean time you do have at least two basic questions to ask that answering will make the decision for you: 1) Between you and the other guy, which one is more burdened with obligations to dependants, and 2) Between the two of you, which one is in a better position to retrain. Identify metrics for each of those, and the answer falls out of the hat.
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October 06, 2009 11:35 PM
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Oh wow . . . first of all I am very sorry to hear about your lay off.
As far as bumping some one I would really want to know a few things.
Who is closer to retirement? Can you or he get a nice "golden handshake" deal?
What are job prospects in the area?
Who do you think would have an easier time finding a new job?
Who is having a harder time making ends meet?
I would try to answer these questions and choose based on the outcome
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As far as bumping some one I would really want to know a few things.
Who is closer to retirement? Can you or he get a nice "golden handshake" deal?
What are job prospects in the area?
Who do you think would have an easier time finding a new job?
Who is having a harder time making ends meet?
I would try to answer these questions and choose based on the outcome
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October 07, 2009 12:09 AM
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I totally disagree. first of all what I would want to know, senority aside, if you did nothing, who would survive the cut. senority is no longer an issue. It will come down to a few things, the less experienced will get lower pay meaning better bottom line for company. Or who is the better worker (if a hazardous job). I don't think you should deliberately set out to make your friend lose his job but at the same time, you have your own family and obligations to attend to.
I know it sounds selfish but I would have to protect my job. There is no one out there that I can send my bills to. My family deserves to have a roof over their head and food on the table. Granted times are hard and it is a shame that someone is going to lose his job. So without doing anything unethical, I would have to protect my family before his. sorry Others mey disagree.
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I know it sounds selfish but I would have to protect my job. There is no one out there that I can send my bills to. My family deserves to have a roof over their head and food on the table. Granted times are hard and it is a shame that someone is going to lose his job. So without doing anything unethical, I would have to protect my family before his. sorry Others mey disagree.
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October 07, 2009 01:00 AM
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Have you tried to get another job?
You never know what is out there until you really look and you might come across something great.
Look for a job until the very last minute you can.
Then, talk with your friend. Tell him that you've been looking for a job and haven't had any luck. It could be that this friend is looking for "a reason" to quit or has a line on another job.
After that, I'd deeply and impartially consider who needs the job more. Do you have kids and he doesn't? Does he have a mountain of debt but you don't? Make a list with 2 columns (your side and his).
If I decided that I was going to bump him out of his job, I would first go to his manager and ask if there was a way that the salary could be split. I would take a very significant pay cut for a good friend and if your friend knows that he is faced with a pay cut or a lost job, he may feel the same way or at least appreciate your efforts.
Still, if after all this internal debate and effort I thought that bumping my friend out of his job was the only way I could survive, then yes, I would.
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You never know what is out there until you really look and you might come across something great.
Look for a job until the very last minute you can.
Then, talk with your friend. Tell him that you've been looking for a job and haven't had any luck. It could be that this friend is looking for "a reason" to quit or has a line on another job.
After that, I'd deeply and impartially consider who needs the job more. Do you have kids and he doesn't? Does he have a mountain of debt but you don't? Make a list with 2 columns (your side and his).
If I decided that I was going to bump him out of his job, I would first go to his manager and ask if there was a way that the salary could be split. I would take a very significant pay cut for a good friend and if your friend knows that he is faced with a pay cut or a lost job, he may feel the same way or at least appreciate your efforts.
Still, if after all this internal debate and effort I thought that bumping my friend out of his job was the only way I could survive, then yes, I would.
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October 07, 2009 07:10 AM
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How much do you want this job, and how badly do you need it?
Is your friend good and qualified for another job that you know is hiring?
Are you thinking about retiring with a good deal?...
I think it would all come down to .. do you need the job more, or does he need the job more, and does he or you like the job more? If he or you do not like the job or company.. it should be easy.. But also try to help your friend have time to find and get hired at a different job before bumping him if you can... if you choose to bump him.
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Is your friend good and qualified for another job that you know is hiring?
Are you thinking about retiring with a good deal?...
I think it would all come down to .. do you need the job more, or does he need the job more, and does he or you like the job more? If he or you do not like the job or company.. it should be easy.. But also try to help your friend have time to find and get hired at a different job before bumping him if you can... if you choose to bump him.
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